Talk:Main Page:Archive3

Wikisolutions-HowTo-WikiHowTo
Hello, thanks for contacting me, i was planing on contacting you once i had my ideas put together. We currently are trying to come up with a organization structure for cross linking. As of now the Categories just use a simple hierarchically system.
 * Category Page
 * Subsection
 * Link to howto
 * Link to howto
 * Subsection
 * Link to howto
 * Link to howto

See: wikihowto/Cat:Computers for a very rough example, There is probable a better way but we haven't come up with one. We are also in the process of figuring out a forward and backward linking system. I think your method would be too confusing, but i think its an important thing to have. Backward linking is fairly intuitive. Add the link to a simpler howto in a complex step. Kind of like wikipedia just links words instead or defining them on the page.
 * Example: Step 5: The transistor must be biased with a small load, and connected to the input of the amplifier. See: HowTo bias a transistor

Forward linking is a bit less obvious. The best we have come up with is haveing a section on each page for, "With this HowTo you can do these HowTos". In this section it would just have a link to all the howtos that link to the page. I know this isn't the best solution, but its the best i have come up with. My friend mentioned that there may be an automated way to do this.

In the end i hope that we can merge our pages and hopefully merge all the others, combining ideas on structure and policy. And i am open to anything. There are formal policies on official proposals http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/New_project_policy but i dont think we should worry about that yet. Tell me what you this, hopefully we can wiki-o-fy our goals together. wikihowto ZyMOS 23:37, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
 * P.S. Please tell me what you think my site needs, or change it if you like. I dont mind criticism. and i hope i dont offend you with my bluntness, I am just very critical about everything, and i dont intend to be mean.
 * P.P.S. I am an electrical engineer and linux dork, and my friend is a computer sci, linux dork. so wen we are ready to make it offical we will have to make bunch of howtos to start with, at least in a few subjects.

Well, you do not use howtos to do things. You use what Inyuki called Objects. Objects is like in computers, thay do not mean always phisical objects. For exaple, 'linux is an object. Or blog service or blog software' are objects. Actualy, after thinking a bit, i came to the conclusion that objects are no more no less than wikipedia pages.

A howto will be related to a few "Objects", not to a few other howtos. Thats why i changed my mind (first i wanted to put howtos into categories, see Wikisolutions). Now i do not think we should ever put howtos into categories. I think we should link to howtos from pages about Objects. And to make complex Objects. While in Wikipedia you only have basic objects, here we nead composed objects.

Example of objects: "Free Software", "Linux", "Debian", "GNU", "GNU/Linux", "Blog software", "Web software", "Software drivers"

Example of howtos: "How to obtain a blogging software that runs on linux and is free software?"

You will not put this howto into "Linux", because if you put all Howtos related to linux into linux you will have more than one million howtos there...

Example of composed category: "Free Software -  GNU/Linux", "Free Software - Linux"

Other examples of multiple composed: "Free Software - GNU/Linux - Web Software", "Free software - Linux - Software drivers"

Examples of not wanted composed objects: "Free software - GNU - Linux - Debian - Blog software - python software"

You will put your howto into "Free Software - GNU/Linux - Web Software" ONLY...

Objects could not be categories because of two reasons. First of all you will be able to link to them like this: You nead GNU/Linux and .... When you go to GNu/Linux you willl find  other howtos elated to gnu/linux, but also other composed objects using gnu/linux.

what i sugest is to:
 * ignore completly the categories of MediaWiki, like they never existed.
 * For each page on Wikipedia create a page on HowTo and list there all howtos related to that Object.
 * For each Objec list the composed objects using that object.
 * If an howto is related to more than one Object, then do not list him in any of this object's pages, but create a new Composed Object, this will be a new page that is an object composed of two other objects.

This is a very wiki-style idea. It means you will be able to just link to obects like in Wikipedia. Howtos are too complicated to bother grouping all of them. The best we could do (excepting linking to the Objects) is to make a section "Related HowTos" in each howto...

moa3333 17:12, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Block Diagram I think i am starting to get it, but I think a visual example may help me to understand better. do u think you could throw together a quick block diagram with howtos and objects as blocks and maybe arrows as search patters[or links], or what ever is applicable. Be sure to label if a block is an actual page or something else....

I think that will help to to get a better understand of you system. It doesn't have to be anything fancy, scribble in an art prog, visio, or anything.

Thanks ZyMOS 18:24, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

I'll try to do it soon, as soon as i have time. But i would like to have only one project, so that everyne contributes to one project. moa3333 02:23, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree we need to join our projects together and hopefully later some of the other ones on the internet. I just want to make sure that both of our goals are join the best they can. ZyMOS 05:11, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

After thinking a little, and gathering informations about the old howto projects and their good/bad parts, i have managed to come with a new idea, witxh seems to me very good. I will make a general proposal on WikiHowTo (proposal). moa3333 15:54, 28 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Im a bit sleepy right now so i just glanced through the page, but it looks good. I check it out tommorow or the next and read through it and tell you want i think.  Thanks ZyMOS 05:18, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Proposal

 * I cleaned up the proposal a little bit, but i tried not to change teh context. I added a block diagram, let me know if i got it wrong.
 * I added some comments here WikiHowTo_(proposal)/comments, but over all i liked it, and i think it look promising. ZyMOS 06:40, 1 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, about the diagram, it is a little confusing i think. Not mine is better but maybe we could say more what each type of page should contain. I think i agree with a HowTo page, as you proposed it with a few improvements in time.
 * Sounds good i will merge into the proposal and then feel free to make modifications to it.


 * On the contrary, the guides should point to some howtos that are related, but if there is only ONE HowTo, then we do not nead a guide to poit to it, and we can make the hole guide a HowTo. I think we will have many guides with only one HowTo at the begining, and less in time. At the begining we will have only a few guides...
 * I still think im confused... could u make an example... link to imaginary howtos and wen text would be like a paragraph just type blaaaa....blaaa.....blaaaaa....


 * The objects, i do not think we should include there the content that is on wikipedia. A simple link to the wikipedia page is enaught. I think it should also link to all the guides related to an object. They will be a list of guides, not an article.
 * so objects are a page of links, no text? Anything that applies to the object?  for example computer would have hundreds of links, but chebyshev filter would only have a few?


 * About portals, i think this term was not well choosen or explained. I think they are more about the degree of the response. They will reflect more the kind of people they are adressed to, the kind of task, not what is relate to it. They adress a certain kind of people, exactly like a book for 10 years old cildren, even if it is about computers and operating systems should not be put together with a book about hacking the linux kernel.


 * Thats why i think portals should be renamed to salon witch is should have both a certain audience expected, and a degree of understnding. It may, for some very specialized tasks to requie also a certain level of studies or education to watch and/or to contribute. A salon should have a theme exactly like real-life expositions and/or conferences. It should explain what people is expected to use it. That is all, it does not want to split the wikihowto in parts. WikiHowTo  should remain a global wiki, with links between any page to any other page that is related to it.
 * the way i think of 'portals' is in a genteral question. Like... What would i want to know if i were to....  Like, for the portal, knitting, there would be guides/howtos- make yarn, buy yarn, how to knit Y, howto knit X, howto make knitting needles, howto use kniting needles, guide to traditional russian knitting, and so on.  Do i have the wrong idea?
 * also i like the idea of changin the the name to more of a metophoric gathering place for people or wares, but salon seem to abstract. I havnt come up with great alternatives. I was thinking a cart or vender in a market place, but i cant find a word that sounds nice, isnt absract, or ambigious.  The best i got is colective, genre, and family.
 * So obects are only simple lists of guides, guides will have one howto that may be separated into more than one if it becomes very big and complex (for example how to build an airplane? neads more than one howto depending on the level of explanations - it will not be the same for a 10 years old and for a very advanced engineer...). Then we have the salons, witch will regroup guides that are related to the same kind of audience and "jobs". Only this last one will be structured into categories eventually.
 * ill write more later, i have to study. by the way, I hope im not anoining you with all the questions and sugestions. I just want to make sure i understand what you want, as well as what i thing the public would want. If im ever being to anal, just tell me, and we can stick with the orginal idea ...  ZyMOS 00:15, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Ok
Then we have the folowing elements:
 * Objects are just list of links; and will have objects with only a few links, and objects with many links like computer; (however, in computers will not enter for example, howtos related to the CPU, that are not directly related to a computer as a hole)
 * So computer would only be, howto build a computer, howto buy a computer, guide to upgrading a computer, howto recycle a computer. But it would not include, howto setup a computer network[object=network], install OS[object=os],  replace computer monitor[object=monitor], cool you computer[object=computer_cooling].
 * Example page would be
 * Object name
 * wikipedia def
 * Links to Portals
 * a member in the list
 * Links to guides
 * a member in the list
 * do i have this roughly correct ZyMOS 00:34, 4 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Portals we can keep the name, but make a few "types" of portal. I think about:
 * Portals that are a collection of information on a precise very specialised theme
 * Portals for the needs of some genre of people
 * Portals about a family of products or services
 * Im still a bit lost on this one. Is it like an object, but more general and has an introduction/description ZyMOS 00:34, 4 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Content pages; i think we should do two types of content pages:
 * Simple HosTos, this will folow an example
 * More comples guides, they will have other type of example; they are for example Guide into the tools you can use to write a presentation. This is not the same as How to use PowerPoint. the first is a guise of the availiable solutions, the seccond is a simple howto about a precise thing. A guide is about an obtaining the tools to do a precise thing, while howtos are about how to do something usign a precise tool. The first we do not know the tools, the seccond we do not know what to do with the tools...
 * Agreed i like it, when i have time ill make an example guide, and you can tell what you like and dislike.ZyMOS 00:34, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

So you have Objects (simple lists), Portals (3 types) and Content pages (2 types). moa3333 23:36, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
 * also i like the organization style of the descriptions, i think it should be implemented in the proposal